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CHARACTER AND CREATURE DESIGNS Jul 31, 2010 Lectures Neville Page, one of the film industry's best character and creature designer, will talk about his work in films like Avatar, Cloverfield and Star Trek in a talk called "How to Create a Creature from Soup to Nuts.
32 other things to do in San Diego 31 Saturday
 

 

 
Home / Articles / News / News /  Tax attacks
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Tuesday, Feb 23, 2010

Tax attacks

Hillcrest grudge match pits Market Anarchists against Democratic Socialists

By Dave Maass


When politics is debated at a coffeehouse, the argument inevitably takes shape in terms of coffeehouse metaphors. Case in point, here’s what market-anarchist Joey Hill told an audience member during a debate on the topic “Is government necessary?” on Monday at Hillcrest’s Café Libertalia:

“It kills me how you can’t see a difference in me coming in and voluntarily buying your baklava and your stealing my money and shoving your baklava down my throat.”

Hill, along with debate partner Joseph Corbett argued that government inherently violates an individual’s natural rights; it steals property through taxation and enforces monopolies through regulation. In their utopia of “Voluntaryism,” government would be abolished so the free market could determine all realms of public life—from the justice system to environmental protection.

The opposing view was represented by Grossmont Community College sociology professor Gregg Robinson and San Diego State University physics professor Herb Shore, both Democratic Socialists. They argued that government, though potentially oppressive, may ensure equality and prosperity across society.

“This dream of a pure market is itself conducive to a nightmare,” Shore said. “When we have children born in this country to poverty, to racism, that is a kind of coercion the other side is not willing to recognize.”

The Feb. 22 event, which drew more than 30 spectators, was the first debate for the café, which is run by Donna Orlando and Jesse Thomas, advocates for a free-market society as articulated by Austrian thinkers. Thomas hosts a weekly study group and began leading protests last fall. One demonstration involved Corbett paying $2,000 in property taxes with $1 bills and publicly confronting San Diego County Treasurer-Tax Collector Dan McAllister.

Both sides declared victory in the debate, but the café owners say there was no clear winner. “I think it was a draw because the Democratic Socialists exposed themselves as [supporting] the initiation of force or coercion to get what they want,” Thomas says. “The anarcho-capitalist argument didn’t go much further than morality arguments.”

Hill and Corbett’s position isn’t far removed from that espoused in an online manifesto published by Joe Stack, before the disgruntled taxpayer flew a plane into an IRS building in Austin on Feb. 18. Hill says Stack may have been justified, though an individual should exhaust all other options before resorting to violence.

“I do believe that if you are coerced or oppressed, you have the legitimate right to defend yourself,” Hill told CityBeat in a follow-up interview. The 32-year-old ex-Marine with a West Virginian accent says former presidential candidate Ron Paul was his “gateway drug” to anarchism.

Yet, Hill opposes the Tea Party movement and has staged counter-protests: They believe in smaller government, while he believes in no government and boycotting the democratic process.

“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb arguing over what to have for dinner, and it seems Joe and I are going to be for dinner in a Democratic Socialist society,” Hill said in the debate. “However, in a market-anarchist society, I would never have any of you for dinner.”

Nor, presumably, for a coffeehouse snack.

 
 
 
 
 
 
02.24.2010 at 06:10 Reply
Here's a metaphor for ya: The wolf guarding the hen house. One wonders what these market-anarchist yahoos think about having to pay a user fee to use every highway and city street, having to pay for-profit mercenaries to defend our national and local safety, and having to pay "educators" who will inevitably withhold knowledge from students until the next installment is received. The solution is simple: The free market should control all wants, and the government should fund and implement all needs (with the option for private contracts if they are cheaper and comply with the law).

 

02.24.2010 at 10:13 Reply
Hmm... and who would decide which are "needs" -- I guess that would be the 51% who would be controlling the 49% who disagree.

 

02.24.2010 at 10:14 Reply
Oh, forgot to ask... how would the government "fund" those "needs". Guess it would have to be by stealing from everyone in the form of "taxes" -- yup, even the 49% who don't want what they're offering.

 

02.24.2010 at 10:58 Reply
How ironic that "Poppa" trots out the "wolf guarding the hen house" as an excuse for government. Gee, an organization that takes your money, tells you what to buy and how much, bribes other people with it to gain their support (called elections and government programs), start wars and murders poor people in far-off lands, claims monopoly after monopoly as its own domain, makes up the laws and forces you to go to its own hired judges for "fair" trials, sends kids to mandatory indoctrination institutions called "public schools," Oh, that's not a fox watching a hen house, noooo way! It was particularly hilarious that Poppa asks government to continue running (into the ground) the pot-hole-filled road system based on the "good work" it does "defend[ing] our national and local safety." Only Poppa and his friends would ask us to believe that whopper. Heck, the government couldn't even protect its headquarters of evil and mass murder (the Pentagon) from a few people with tiny box cutters on 9-11. He also doesn't mention that citizens who happen to live in the United States wouldn't have to fear any terrorists if their sainted government had not been launching wars of aggression and mass murder around the world for the past 60 years or so -- killing 3 million in Vietnam, between 1 and 2 million in the Middle East, and on and on – just so that suburban soccer moms can drive bigger SUVs to drag more “stuff” around. The sainted government surely has not caused the problem that it pretends to protect us from, did it? Oh, no, the government hasn’t been creating enemies anywhere, has it? And all of those so-called illegal aliens whom people like Poppa are worried will take his job and candy, would they be coming here if we were not bribing people with welfare payments – whether they were born here or not? And as for protecting our "local safety," the insane war on drugs is perhaps the source of most crimes because it pushes drug traffic into the arms of criminals. This so-called war fills the prisons with harmless people and requires thousands of well-paid bureaucrat-sadists (called prison guards), and thousands of police, and thousands of judges and lawyers. Now that wouldn't be yet another one of those self-inflicted government-induced crime-creation programs, would it? It wouldn’t be just a wee bit wasteful and nutty, would it? After all, you can't have people putting things into their mouths unless the government approves (unless you're an intern at the White House), can you? Perhaps we need to pork-out the police and prison-guard populations a bit more by transforming lots of other peaceful, consensual acts into crimes by using the government legislation system --creating more government-created problems. Yes, we need more trogs like Poppa to keep the government wheels spinning over our heads, don't we? Surely people who are anti-government must be irrational, eh? I’m with Poppa.

 

02.24.2010 at 12:21 Reply
I have to laugh at Poppa's comment. He believes that the government should provide all of our needs. So should the government: Provide our food? Provide shelter for all? Provide us with cars? I mean, how feasible is it to live without a car these days? This leads to other questions: 1. Who gets to decide what "needs" are? Bureaucrats? 2. Where does the money come from? 3. How does funding occur without using the threat of violence? Freedom works, "yahoos" are people who believe we need violence to solve problems in society.

 

 
 
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